========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 08:52:59 -0800 Reply-To: Radiocarbon Mailing List Sender: Radiocarbon Mailing List From: PAT PRINGLE Subject: precision issue Comments: cc: kts@CISUNIX.UNH.EDU Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Greetings, I subscribe to tree-ring forum, and a couple months agot here was a question regarding which dyes to use to help accent "functional sapwood" in a tree. This inquiry led to the posting by Kevin Smith, which I will attach below. My question is this: if it's possible for starches to be migrating in as much as 10 annual growth rings from the active growing ring, then doesn't that add to the an unknown amount of rings that is equal to the functional sapwood to a given error reported for a radiocarbon age. This may not amount to much in a standard sample, but for a high precision age, in which errors are sometimes reported as +-10 years or so, it would seem to make a big difference. I don't know much about tree physiology, so I don't know where the starches that might migrate would be stored. Kevin, I am sending a copy of this to you as well. Thanks for your thougths on this. Pat Patrick Pringle Geologist WA Dept. of Natural Resources Division of Geology, PO Box 47007 Olympia WA 98504-7007 360-902-1433; FAX 902-1785 cyberspace: DNR homepage www.wa.gov/dnr/ Geology Division homepage www.wa.gov/dnr/htdocs/ger/ WA GEO bibliography search: http://www.wa.gov/dnr/htdocs/ger/washbib.htm Featured sites: http://www.wa.gov/puget_sound/Publications/01_proceedings/sessions/oral/4d_pring.pdf Influence of volcanism on Puget Lowland http://www.sciencenews.org/20011124/toc.asp Science News re Rainier (new) http://www.oregonlive.com/news/00/01/st011609.html Sediment Retention Dam and ongoing sedimentation problems downstream of Mt. St. Helens http://www.tri-cityherald.com/travel/stories/backyard/sthelens.html http://geocities.com/buried_forest/ Tanwax Creek-Ohop Valley late-glacial flood http://www.mountsthelensinstitute.org/ MSHI--Classes and field-oriented natural science http://www-geology.ucdavis.edu/www/alumni/newsletter98/emm.html Eldridge Moores' "why geology matters" http://www-geology.ucdavis.edu/www/Faculty/moores_gsa/index.html Eldridge Moores' slide show http://www.ecy.wa.gov/events/hg/index.htm 2003 WA Hydrogeology Conference http://personal.cmich.edu/~franc1m/homepage.htm An impressive earth science resource! =========================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send the command SIGNOFF C14-L to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU, or send a request to C14-L-request@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 13:01:23 -0800 Reply-To: Radiocarbon Mailing List Sender: Radiocarbon Mailing List From: Paula Reimer Subject: Re: precision issue Comments: cc: PAT PRINGLE In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Dear Pat and other list members, Minze Stuiver measured the difference in 14C between Douglas-fir wood treated with NaOH and HCl to remove sugars, resins and a portion of the lignin (the De Vries method) with wood processed to alpha-cellulose. With the exception of the rings formed after 1952, which showed the effect of nuclear bomb carbon feedback, the difference from natural 14C variations averaged 0.5 +/- 0.8 per mil, or about 4 years (Stuiver and Quay, 1980, Science 207:11-19). However, the amount of mobile compounds trapped in lignin that is not completely removed by the De Vries method may vary with species (Hoper et al., 1998, Radiocarbon 40:45-50) . The De Vries method is essentially the same as the standard acid-base-acid treatment used in routine radiocarbon dating of wood, so this will not have much of an effect on the precision of routine radiocarbon ages, but as Pat points out, could make a difference in high-precision work. Extraction of alpha-cellulose is a lot more work (and not generally possible on decayed wood) but the only way to ensure there is no feedback. Cheers, Paula At 08:52 AM 2/13/2003 -0800, you wrote: >Greetings, >I subscribe to tree-ring forum, and a couple months agot here was a question >regarding which dyes to use to help accent "functional sapwood" in a tree. >This >inquiry led to the posting by Kevin Smith, which I will attach below. My >question is this: if it's possible for starches to be migrating in as much >as 10 >annual growth rings from the active growing ring, then doesn't that add to the >an unknown amount of rings that is equal to the functional sapwood to a given >error reported for a radiocarbon age. This may not amount to much in a >standard >sample, but for a high precision age, in which errors are sometimes >reported as >+-10 years or so, it would seem to make a big difference. I don't know much >about tree physiology, so I don't know where the starches that might migrate >would be stored. Kevin, I am sending a copy of this to you as well. > >Thanks for your thougths on this. > >Pat > > > >Patrick Pringle >Geologist >WA Dept. of Natural Resources >Division of Geology, PO Box 47007 >Olympia WA 98504-7007 >360-902-1433; FAX 902-1785 >cyberspace: >DNR homepage www.wa.gov/dnr/ >Geology Division homepage www.wa.gov/dnr/htdocs/ger/ >WA GEO bibliography search: http://www.wa.gov/dnr/htdocs/ger/washbib.htm > >Featured sites: >http://www.wa.gov/puget_sound/Publications/01_proceedings/sessions/oral/4d_pring.pdf > Influence of volcanism on Puget Lowland >http://www.sciencenews.org/20011124/toc.asp Science News re Rainier (new) >http://www.oregonlive.com/news/00/01/st011609.html Sediment Retention Dam >and ongoing sedimentation problems downstream of Mt. St. Helens >http://www.tri-cityherald.com/travel/stories/backyard/sthelens.html >http://geocities.com/buried_forest/ Tanwax Creek-Ohop Valley late-glacial >flood >http://www.mountsthelensinstitute.org/ MSHI--Classes and >field-oriented natural science >http://www-geology.ucdavis.edu/www/alumni/newsletter98/emm.html Eldridge >Moores' "why geology matters" >http://www-geology.ucdavis.edu/www/Faculty/moores_gsa/index.html Eldridge >Moores' slide show >http://www.ecy.wa.gov/events/hg/index.htm 2003 WA Hydrogeology >Conference >http://personal.cmich.edu/~franc1m/homepage.htm An impressive earth >science resource! > >============================================================================ >To unsubscribe from this list, send the command SIGNOFF C14-L to >LISTSERV@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU, or send a request to >C14-L-request@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU. Dr. Paula Reimer Center for Accelerator Mass Spectrometry L-397 Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory P.O. Box 808 Livermore, CA 94550 Phone: (925) 422-7151 FAX: (925) 423-7884 email:pjreimer@llnl.gov =========================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send the command SIGNOFF C14-L to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU, or send a request to C14-L-request@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 10:43:03 +1100 Reply-To: Radiocarbon Mailing List Sender: Radiocarbon Mailing List From: "HUA, Quan" Subject: Re: precision issue MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Dear Pat and Kevin, Cain and Suess (1976, J. Geophys. Res. 81(21): 3688-3694) reported that there can be a very pronounced incorporation of carbon into the wood of a growing tree at the time when sapwood changes into heartwood. They found positive values of Delta 14C (bomb 14C signals) between 1920 and 1935 for tree-rings from an oak tree grown in New York. They employed solvent extraction followed by alkali and acid to pretreat their wood samples for 14C analysis. This pretreatment might not effectively remove lignin and therefore mobile materials (sugars, waxes, oils, etc.) trapped in lignin. For more information about problems of mobile materials and wood pretreatment for radiocarbon analysis, see Olsson and Possnert (1992, Radiocarbon 34(3): 757-767) and Hua et al. (1999, IAWA Journal 20(3): 261-283). Extraction alpha-cellulose is the way to avoid this problem (as already mentioned by Paula)and obtain reliable atmospheric 14C value for the tree-growing season. Our extraction procedure of alpha-cellulose is reported in Hua et al. (2000, Nucl. Instr. and Meth. B 172: 359-365). REgards, Quan *************************************************************** Quan Hua Environment Division ANSTO PMB 1, Menai NSW 2234, Australia Tel: +61 2 9717 3671 Fax: +61 2 9717 9265 E-mail: qhx@ansto.gov.au Disclaimer : The views expressed in this E-mail message do not necessarily represent the official views of ANSTO from which this message was conveyed. -----Original Message----- From: PAT PRINGLE [mailto:pat.pringle@WADNR.GOV] Sent: Friday, 14 February 2003 3:53 AM To: C14-L@listserv.arizona.edu Subject: precision issue Greetings, I subscribe to tree-ring forum, and a couple months agot here was a question regarding which dyes to use to help accent "functional sapwood" in a tree. This inquiry led to the posting by Kevin Smith, which I will attach below. My question is this: if it's possible for starches to be migrating in as much as 10 annual growth rings from the active growing ring, then doesn't that add to the an unknown amount of rings that is equal to the functional sapwood to a given error reported for a radiocarbon age. This may not amount to much in a standard sample, but for a high precision age, in which errors are sometimes reported as +-10 years or so, it would seem to make a big difference. I don't know much about tree physiology, so I don't know where the starches that might migrate would be stored. Kevin, I am sending a copy of this to you as well. Thanks for your thougths on this. Pat Patrick Pringle Geologist WA Dept. of Natural Resources Division of Geology, PO Box 47007 Olympia WA 98504-7007 360-902-1433; FAX 902-1785 cyberspace: DNR homepage www.wa.gov/dnr/ Geology Division homepage www.wa.gov/dnr/htdocs/ger/ WA GEO bibliography search: http://www.wa.gov/dnr/htdocs/ger/washbib.htm Featured sites: http://www.wa.gov/puget_sound/Publications/01_proceedings/sessions/oral/4d_pring.pdf Influence of volcanism on Puget Lowland http://www.sciencenews.org/20011124/toc.asp Science News re Rainier (new) http://www.oregonlive.com/news/00/01/st011609.html Sediment Retention Dam and ongoing sedimentation problems downstream of Mt. St. Helens http://www.tri-cityherald.com/travel/stories/backyard/sthelens.html http://geocities.com/buried_forest/ Tanwax Creek-Ohop Valley late-glacial flood http://www.mountsthelensinstitute.org/ MSHI--Classes and field-oriented natural science http://www-geology.ucdavis.edu/www/alumni/newsletter98/emm.html Eldridge Moores' "why geology matters" http://www-geology.ucdavis.edu/www/Faculty/moores_gsa/index.html Eldridge Moores' slide show http://www.ecy.wa.gov/events/hg/index.htm 2003 WA Hydrogeology Conference http://personal.cmich.edu/~franc1m/homepage.htm An impressive earth science resource! =========================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send the command SIGNOFF C14-L to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU, or send a request to C14-L-request@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU. =========================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send the command SIGNOFF C14-L to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU, or send a request to C14-L-request@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 18:02:25 -0600 Reply-To: jmitchell@austincollege.edu Sender: Radiocarbon Mailing List From: James Michael Mitchell Subject: current levels of C-14 in the biosphere MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000B_01C2D777.E7B42C60" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C2D777.E7B42C60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm an undergraduate student working on a modeling project (C-14) for my differential equations course. Can anyone tell me or direct me to the current level of C-14 in the biosphere (or the ratio of C-12/C-14). I greatly appreciate any help provided. JM =========================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send the command SIGNOFF C14-L to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU, or send a request to C14-L-request@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU. ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C2D777.E7B42C60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message
I'm = an=20 undergraduate student working on a modeling project (C-14) for my = differential=20 equations course.  Can anyone tell me or direct me to the current = level of=20 C-14 in the biosphere (or the ratio of C-12/C-14).  I greatly = appreciate=20 any help provided.
JM
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D To unsubscribe from this list, send the command SIGNOFF C14-L to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU, or send a request to C14-L-request@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU. ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C2D777.E7B42C60-- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 09:32:34 -0700 Reply-To: Radiocarbon Mailing List Sender: Radiocarbon Mailing List From: Kim T Elliott Subject: Contents page alerting service Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" A message from publisher Taylor & Francis... Dear Colleague Taylor & Francis currently publishes over 740 academic peer-reviewed journals across a variety of disciplines. In response to the changing needs of the academic community, we are using the Internet actively to disseminate information about journals in advance of publication. SARA - Scholarly Articles Research Alerting, is a special email service designed to deliver tables of contents, for any Taylor & Francis, Carfax, Routledge, Spon Press, or Psychology Press journal, to anyone who has requested the information. This service is completely free of charge. All you need to do is register, and you will be sent contents pages of the journal(s) of your choice from that point onwards, in advance of the printed edition. You can select to receive alerts by keyword or by title and you may unsubscribe at any time. For each of your choices, you will receive the relevant bibliographic information: journal title, volume/issue number and the ISSN. You will also receive full contents details, names of authors and the appropriate page numbers from the printed version. This will give you advance notice of what is being published, making it easier for you to retrieve the exact information you require from the hard copy once it arrives in your library. Titles that may be of interest are: Boreas - http://www.tandf.co.uk/journals/titles/03009483.html To register for this complimentary service, please visit: http://www.tandf.co.uk/sara and click on the SARA button. If you have any questions regarding this service, please email: SARA@tandf.co.uk =========================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list, send the command SIGNOFF C14-L to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU, or send a request to C14-L-request@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU.